From walter.acs.nmu.edu!news.mtu.edu!msunews!uwm.edu!chi-news.cic.net!io.org!van-bc!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!news.ptd.net!news Sat Nov 11 22:26:47 1995 Newsgroups: alt.drugs.psychedelics Path: walter.acs.nmu.edu!news.mtu.edu!msunews!uwm.edu!chi-news.cic.net!io.org!van-bc!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!news.ptd.net!news From: shadow@postoffice.ptd.net (shadow@postoffice.ptd.net) Subject: Re: "The Ketamine Dimension" X-Nntp-Posting-Host: cs1-06.haw.ptd.net Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Message-ID: Sender: news@postoffice.ptd.net (News Master) Organization: excalibur glass X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5 References: <4643kt$fio@guysmiley.blarg.net> <476j1j$lvl@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 04:19:49 GMT Lines: 489 In article , mcthomas@netcom.com electrocuted his scrotum then said... > >I got ahold of a bottle of 100mg/ml Ketalar HCL a few years back. I knew >about cooking it down to powder form. I also knew about injecting it but >since I wasn't into the needle-scene I snorted. It was fun until I fell >into a 'k-hole'. This is where you think you're going to die. not true...this is where YOU thought you were going to die!!!, for the rest of us it may be the nexus (star trek fans understand) where we want to spend eternity. as i have REPEATEDLY SAID.....do not do lines of this stuff...it is too unpredictable.....spend 9.95$ and get a snuff inhaler....and by the way...the k-hole is the fun place to be.....(once you get used to it) here is a rough text about k..... --------------rip mangle slice hallucinate here>>>>>> ignore the misspellings, and the bad punctuation, part of the fun of writting on the net is that you can do this stuff and not worry about it....so sue me, i have three degrees and cant spell the following information is supplied for the sake of disseminating information in the spirit of freedom of speech and the freedom of the press. the stories depicted may not represent actual people or facts, but are intended to represent to the best of the author's knowlege, the way actual occurences of the stated nature might unfold. any attempt to use this information in an illegal way is forbidden by whatever laws apply to your jurisdiction. the use, reading, posession, of this information outside of the United States of America, even without illegal intent may be a crime. The authors of this material are not responsible for any actions or events resulting from any use of this information. The use of pronouns, including the word: "I" do not indicate that the statements designate the author, but rather are a reporting of statements made by others (real or fabricated) as described above. the cheapest i know of k coming is from a wholesaler at 28.50$$us for a half gram bottle....it comes as an industrial form for slightly less than that, but the two might not be any different, the research company that sells it might just be stating it is for research purposes only just for liability causes. where i am an unopened 500mg bottle sells for 100$$ on the street. there is some concern that extasy sold in raves has actually been k, and some say that this substitution has been responsible for proliferating the use of k. unfortunately, the milligramme dose of k vs x is different, so k ingested in the belief that it is x will not have much effect. as far as divination, yes there are a few people who say that k is amongst the best agents for this.....keep in mind that there may be different agents that are good for different things. i will recount some stories and themes that appear with k use, as well as a little description of how to use it. first....it comes in strengths of 10mg/cc 50mg/cc and 100mg/cc....get the 50 or 100mg/cc bottles if available...the 100mg /cc bottles actually have slightly more in them because of the way that they are packaged. (the pharmaceutical companies put enough in so that there is a little extra so you dont have to get every last drop with the syringe when using it, this is a fixed volume, say a quarter of a cc, so quick math tells you that an extra quarter of a cc of the 100mg/cc stuff gives you the most extra per bottle.) avoid i.v or i.m. use.....if you have to use it that way then you have a problem and need to go to a rehab drug clinic....it is really simple and clear cut, there is absolutely no reason to use the stuff that way. you can take it orally or nasally or rectally....and nasally is recommended......it may be possible to take it TRANSDERMALLY, and the authors are investigating to see if anyone has reported significant street use of the drug that way. one possibility (unconfirmed) is that dmso mixed with ketamine would do so, but as no reports of this have been collected, the safety of this method is not guaranteed. preparation: you can either take the stuff out with a syringe and needle or more simply by using a small pair of needle nosed pliers or forceps to rip the metal cap off of the bottle and pour it out. pour it on to a plate (corell without any design is recomended) and then dry it. you can dry it either by leaving it for a few days (not a good way), putting it in an oven at about 120degrees (a little better) or best of all, place the plate in a microwave, and microwave it. this usually takes between one and three minutes. some say that the best way is to run blasts of 45 seconds with a slight rest in between until dry. scrape off the resulting crystals and powder them either by chopping with a razor blade, or using an any implement that looks suitable as a pessle. (the handle of a snuff inhaler works well) ingestion: the general rules of using a psychadelic apply. mood is important. setting is important. safety is important. the authors believe that use for meditational/religious purposes are legitamate, and the substance should not be used just for "fun"...this does not mean that legitamate uses cant be pleasurable, but that pleasure is not the goal. the stuff is POWERFUL. it makes you someplace between TOTALLY incapable of movement, and only minimally impaired. any use significant enough to cause mental abberations will definitely cause noticeable physical impairment. it may or may not make you nauseated. this nausea is comprised of two separate causes. probably the largest is MOTION sickness. you get dizzy using k, and you get NYSTAGMUS, which is a "bouncing" of the eyes. your body (brain) is subject to the same stimuli that it would be if you were on an amusement ride. fortunately, if you rest your head on a pillow and dont move your head AT ALL, and fix your eyes on a spot (the television is a good choice), this nausea will almost instantly dissapear. the second nausea comes from a chemical nausea on the chemo receptor trigger zone in the brain, and is more frequent with higher doses, and appears to be more rare. both of these get less with continued use, although continued use may not be desireable, as it causes both attenuation of effects, and MAY cause bad trips. never trip alone....this rule may be bent after you are used to k, but definitely have someone there the first time. 1 make sure you have enough time to do this. 2 have an empty stomach 3 dont mix with other drugs 4 get comfy, and sit or lie down 5 dont plan on moving much, and definitly dont plan on navigating steps 6 set all environment factors the way you want them....lights, sound levels, temperature. 7 you may want music or movie stim in background....something light, this is not the time for some powerful hyper stuff.....at first you frequently will feel as if you were INSIDE of the movie or music, so if you dont want to end up in some killer movie, dont watch one.(this might sound like fun but dont do it, you can get in to a "nice movie" first and see if you like it.) 8 get everything the way you want it....phone off hook, door locked etc, because otherwise you will wonder if you did or not and it will bother you...... 9 place in your mind the knowlege that no matter what happens you will be ok in a little while, and that if you stay in your spot, you will be ok. ***these rules help you with some of the direct and indirect effects of the k that could be disconcerting and or dangerous....it turns out that they also help with other psychadelics, but may not be exactly tailored to other agents.....for example, some agents go well with fairly heavy stimuli......k does not, at least not at first.**** place the powdered k in a snuff inhaler....it is the most accurate and easiest way to do it.....doing lines will work, but may not be all that accurate, and you will definitely loose some if you try to re-dose after getting buzzed. (remember that the incoordination is profound) if you are bold you can try a larger dose, but recommended starting is: take one hit in each nostril (two hits) and start the timer on your watch (you dont have one??, tsk tsk tsk), you will notice effects in two to four minutes which will peak in about ten to fifteen minutes, and you will probably be back to relative normal in fourty minutes to an hour. if you want to do more, you could redose four minutes after the first few hits, and theoretically you could keep re-dosing on this schedule untill you zone out into what is called the "k-hole". eventually, getting to the k-hole is what you want to do, although it is not what you should or have to do every time you trip on k. (some of the best mental effects occurr when in a light phase coming out of a trip) redosing before the full effects are felt is called "stacking", and is probably the best way to get to the deep states of k use since hovering on the edge tends to result in an obsessive redose pattern where the individual stays on the light side of the fence, is uncertain of whether to re-dose or not, then lightens up, makes up their mind and re-doses, only to get back to that previous light but not adequate plane of intoxication. most people taking k for the first time would not want to stack the first time. effects: you will notice that each trip may seem different, and that there is no fixed frame of reference....but eventually, you will see a similarity in all of the trips. **you will feel slightly tired at first, although maybe restless too. **you may notice your heart beating quickly ** you may notice that sounds and lights get brighter and intense. **people and especially people in movies will start to look very odd., one person described this effect as meaning that normal actors looked as if they had big heads, and KLINGONS looked almost normal.......some people say that you can get a better appreciation for who in the movie is doing a good acting job, and who has good makeup on...it seems to get easier to see these things. ** you will be more aware of sounds...HUMMING from electrical sources will be almost annoyingly loud some people are convinced they are hearing insects close by. **eventually the room will either close in around you (room wrap), or move very far away, this is part of the spacial distortions that occur. about this time, the colours will take on cartoonish dimensions. you will be very incoordinated. you may at this time begin to sense a different way of thinking....perhaps you will see that some things fit together in ways you did not expect before. many people think a lot about death and the afterlife....several reports have a common thread where people say they felt as if they were "at the place we go to between re-incarnations"....you may sense other presences, or have out of body experiences.....and a lot of the time you will feel as if you understand things, but the final clue to putting it all together will elude you the way that a forgotten dream does the moment you wake up, you will feel close, but unable to pin point the exact thought. hints....you probably dont want to change the temperature settings in the room while you are buzzing, this is because you are not capable of determining what the right temp is while intoxicated....most people feel COLD and want to warm things up.....BAD IDEA since you are actually normal temperature and could get hyperthermic (overheated) if you really warm stuff up....suggested procedure is to have the room where you want it ahead of time, and a blanket available just for mental comfort, that way you wont get too far over the top. In one report i have the traveler (the tripper) kept turning up the heat and when his friends came in the room temp was over 105degrees F. and the persons temp was over 102. he felt really sick for about three days after coming down. another good reason not to fool with setting environmental or any other controls is that you become sort of dyslexic/forgettful, and have a really hard time doing it. you may be able to visualize the way to do something, but you forget which step you are on in the middle of it, and never get done. (this is one of the reasons that people develope that wierd re-dose routine in the middle of a trip) if you are watching a tape that you dont want to loose, it is a good idea to write protect it before starting. mental things that happen on trips: out of body experiences happen but are not excessively common. they may be more of the nature of having a MENTAL presence somewhere else without the feeling of floating to that place......for example, one person had their beeper go off in the middle of the peak of a trip, and did not answer the page, but focused their mind on it, and determined that it was not a "bad" page. they got the image of computers flying around in their mind, and then dismissed the thought. the next day they called the number, and it turned out to be a salesman selling computer systems that had paged them...the page was not expected and they had never talked to that person before. another out of body experience that is more classic of oob experiences goes like this: the person was a first time tripper, and ingested orally 8mg/kg of ketamine (a large dose usually used to make uncontrollable pre-op surgery patients catatonic) they became catatonic, and the intensity of the light levels in the dimly lit room were almost overwhelming. the person closed their eyes and was only a little surprised to notice that not only could they still see the room, but that their FIELD ov vision had increased to 360degrees. there were sounds of children playing outside, and the persons attention floated out to see them (all without noticing that this was unusual) and saw children playing on a playschool shopping cart and toy sit-in race car....the objects were coloured a gaudy red green and yellow. eventually the trip wore off and the person did not think anything of it, until the next day when they realized that not only did they have their eyes closed, but the shades were closed and they had never seen the outside of that house from the back before, but had a clear view of it during the trip....they went back over to that house (a friends) and looked outside, and sure enough, there were the toys just as he had envisioned them. several people have an image of joining a CLUB where the people who trip are the only ones who have gotten it RIGHT, and suddenly find that they are deeply concerned because most of todays societies have the entirely wrong view of these agents and their effects.....many of these people have some vague (or not so vague) idea that a goal of theirs is to promote the use of these agents to better humanity..............then again several people i have reports on have what appears to be a similar feeling of expanding their view of the world, but with a different conclusion..yes they now have expanded view, but feel as if they have looked in to a world that we are not supposed to know while embodied in this physical form.....one report i have details a conversation with an entity that noticed the traveler, and in a sort of resigned mildly annoyed fasion said (telepathically of course) "oh, ANOTHER one, why cant you guys wait until it is time to be here???" many folks find this other place inhabited with some entity or power....the nature of which is unclear.... it is my belief that the beings or entities contacted dont have to actually be what the travelers see them as, but that we place a FORM on them directly related to what cultural icons we have. therefore someone with a technological ideology might see SPACE ALIENS, someone with a religious bent might see gods, someone with other ideas might see any number of things.....the POINT HERE IS THAT THE TRAVELERS ARE SENSING SOMETHING OUT THERE. personally i dont think it matters in a spiritual sense whether there is something out there, but it does matter that we percieve that something is out there, and the key here is what we do with that perception. some folks might say it is all an epiphenomenon of the way our neurons are processing info....others might say it is truely the fabric of the universe we are sensing. others say it is a god or a power, honestly i think that the images we whip up are based on current beliefs and might not have anything to do with the truth. much as an idea is a thought without words, but we communicate it with language, the feeling of a trip might be the idea, and the imagery is the language. is it a space alien, a god, an epiphenomenon, or the fabric of the universe???.....maybe there is an answer, but if so i do not have it. these perceptions are common, and the only thing i can say for sure is that what you do with the perception seems to be the key for what kind of impact it will have on you. visual hallucinations or imagery: aside from the spacial distortions that occur, which can progress to a near total visual agnosia (innability to interpret what you see), i have no reports of open eye visual hallucinations. rarely trails will occur, and a "bobbing" of the field of view (probably from the nystagmus) occurrs. closed eye visuals are possible, and often consist of seeing ROOMS, patterns, or images of things that were in your consciousness recently.....for example, a person playing solataire most of the morning before a voyage (a trip) saw the cards flying in front of her during a trip with closed eyes. another person watching cartoons saw the characters while they had their eyes closed.......these images are not to be confused with what i can only call "mental images", where you have the perception of something so clearly you can almost see it, but arent actually seeing it...sort of like reading a book and getting an idea of what something looks like but not actually seeing it....several of the conversations with the "entities" that occurr involve these soft mental images....one person reports talking on several occaisions with a man dressed in ancient chinese war outfits, a mantis dressed in the scarlet robes of a monk, and an object he calls the orb, which emanated a great power and held some kind of sway over the beings in the k world....only briefly did the person actually SEE these things, but mostly just KNEW that they were there. as the trip wore off, the beings and he had a harder time communicating as if they were shouting accross some great distance, until finally the distance was too far. ketamine can cause something called CORTICAL BLINDNESS....this is a form of blindness where the eyes and neural paths in the brain are functioning, but the cerebral cortex responsible for sight is not....it is by all accounts temporary and only happens during the peak of a trip, apparently the ketamine sometimes anesthetizes the visual cortex to cause this phenpmenon....it is something to be aware of but not afraid of.... as with many psychadelics, there usually is an element of time expansion, which varies in intensity from trip to trip and person to person....ergo the recommended watch-timer. many people report on initial trips (maybe this is the effect with initial trip with any hallucinogen and not just ketamine) a feeling of forgetting who they are, and when or even IF they have ever been "normal".....they are floating in this k world and are BACK HOME, and have always been this way....as i said this seems to be a common effect with several hallucinogens. as you are coming up many people feel as if they are suddenly "emerging" from something with an almost physical feel to it, like water or sand, and the catatonia that accompanies the trip suddenly fractures and you are now up and moving again....still very incoordinated, but there was a definite and sudden change in your thinking back to some semblence of normal.....you will still be capable of some VERY profound associative/transcendental imagery at this point, and honestly, it seems as if most of the better imagery comes in this phase if you sit quietly and just think. most people have a physical urge to be deeper than this however. many profound thoughts on life occur at this stage.....why am i here?, where am i going?.....etc. physical effects.... **k raises the heart rate and blood pressure....this may be of some concern if you have medical problems. **i have already mentioned the effects of brief and harmless cortical blindness **k lowers the seizure threshold, meaning that people with epilepsy or undiagnosed epilepsy MAY have a seizure....there does not seem to be medical evidence that it can induce seizures in a normal person. **snorting will irritate your nose...continued use can erode your nasal septum **you may find yourself a little paraphasic for a day or two after the trip...this means that you cant find the word you want as quickly or you might be substituting similar words in unusual places.....this is a temporary effect and is not apparently dangerous....some of these prolonged effects appear to be because the k is actually sitting in your nose for a day or two and you are getting a minidose from it during that time!!, you can lessen this by RINSING your nose out with saline....preferrably not the stuff used to quite red eyes, as this has an additive that causes vasoconstriction....but pure saline, either dripped into the nose, or snorted out of a tablespoon will rinse out this residual k so that you wont have a minidose of k going on for the next few days. you can make your own saline if you want, the concentration is 0.9% NaCl by weight, but you dont have to be that technical....you know how plain water snorted will sting your nose??....well if you add a dash of salt to a cup of water until it JUST starts to taste salty, you will notice that sniffing that in to your nose does not sting, but actually feels soothing...bingo, that is all you need. most people dont have enough access to k to do it very often, and that may be good....some reports from people who have done it a LOT seem to be pointing to continued and heavy use as a factor for developing bad trips..... be safe, have fun, dont profane the light.